Devils vs. Flyers, 12/12/09

December 12, 2009 by Pookie

Join us for a Saturday night open thread as the Devils and Flyers do battle. We’d say they’re going to engage in battle royal, but according to Wikipedia, that requires 3 or more parties, and frankly, we’re on vacation, so we’ll take a rain check.

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Posted in NJ Devils, Open Thread, Philadelphia Flyers | 117 Comments

117 Responses

on December 12, 2009 at 7:12 pm Schnookie

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! I just finished making dinner in time to see that! Boogerfors for Calder! (I don’t know if beating the Flyers PK like that is really Calder-worthy, though…)
on December 12, 2009 at 7:13 pm EJGRgunner

BOR! BOR! BOR!
on December 12, 2009 at 7:15 pm EJGRgunner

I think Lemaire must have threatened to take away Niklas’ kipper.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:17 pm Pookie

This game is so boring! Trap trap trap trap trap! BORING!
on December 12, 2009 at 7:18 pm Schnookie

I think Lemaire must have threatened to take away Niklas’ kipper.

That’s the only explanation for it! (I think he threatened to take EVERYONE’S kipper away. Sheesh. If they’d skated for just TEN MINUTES last night they way they have so far tonight, they would have won.)
on December 12, 2009 at 7:20 pm Schnookie

Oh, and we’re watching the Flyers feed because it’s in HD and the Devils one isn’t, and the sideline guy just gave us a report about the scratches for tonight. He said that both sides have guys injured, healthy, and suspended. Because “suspended” is a perfectly normal reason for a guy to be scratched for the Flyers.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:21 pm EJGRgunner

Look at Jacques making a funny!
on December 12, 2009 at 7:22 pm EJGRgunner

You missed an epic Lemaire quote. Roughly:

If the guys are tired it isn’t because we kept them on the ice. It must be the Christmas shopping. I went Christmas shopping with my wife, and I couldn’t play hockey after that.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:22 pm Pookie

Jacques’ such a card!
on December 12, 2009 at 7:24 pm EJGRgunner

PS, Marty got an assist on the goal.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:31 pm Pookie

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Boogerfors is a Flyer killer!
on December 12, 2009 at 7:31 pm Schnookie

AAAAHAHAHAHAHA! Jacques could have a career in comedy!!

And WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Boogerfors is an unstoppable scoring machine!
on December 12, 2009 at 7:31 pm EJGRgunner

BOR! BOR! BOR!!
on December 12, 2009 at 7:33 pm EJGRgunner

And apparently Dean McAmmond is the second coming of Scott Stevens based on the way he handled that in open ice.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:33 pm EJGRgunner

Bergfors actually looks a little bit like Brylin.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:34 pm Myra's Hub

Got here just when Chico and Doc were talking about the Christmas shopping quote. I didn’t get what all Chico said but it was sounding like sleeping on the couch material.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:35 pm Schnookie

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! And WOWZA! I had no idea Patty even had that shot! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This game is awesome.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:35 pm Pookie

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! PATTY!!!! I was wondering if Elias was excited to be playing against Boucher. I guess so! ::tosses 300-colored confetti in the air::
on December 12, 2009 at 7:36 pm Kathleen

Because “suspended” is a perfectly normal reason for a guy to be scratched for the Flyers.

:^::::::::::::::::

Of course.

Devils-Flyers is my backup in case the Sabres go south. Losing to the Rangers is too depressing to watch. (Plus any game with the Flyers these days is prime for meltdown hilarity.)
on December 12, 2009 at 7:36 pm EJGRgunner

300! THIS IS SPARTA!!!!! WOOO!!!!
on December 12, 2009 at 7:37 pm Schnookie

I didn’t get what all Chico said but it was sounding like sleeping on the couch material.

:^:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The Flyers feed is hilarious. They just said of the timeout, “We have seen Peter [Laviolette] call his team over for instruction. That was not instructional in nature.” Heh.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:37 pm EJGRgunner

On the downside: the Land Zhark still hasn’t scored.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:38 pm Kathleen

If the guys are tired it isn’t because we kept them on the ice. It must be the Christmas shopping. I went Christmas shopping with my wife, and I couldn’t play hockey after that.

That is… wow.

And yes, it does sound like sleeping on the couch material.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:40 pm Pookie

Yeah, I’ve decided right now he’s more of a Land Manatee.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:41 pm EJGRgunner

That… that might be the first time I’ve seen a textbook example of kneeing.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:41 pm Schnookie

300! THIS IS SPARTA!!!!! WOOO!!!!

:^:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

On the downside: the Land Zhark still hasn’t scored.

Heh. Pookie can’t wait to shout “CANDYGRAM!” when he scores.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:41 pm EJGRgunner

Of course they call it tripping.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:42 pm EJGRgunner

I’m not getting the candygram reference. The only thing that comes to me is “Candygram for Mongo”
on December 12, 2009 at 7:44 pm EJGRgunner

Andreas Nodl sounds like the name of the greatest pastry chef in Vienna.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:45 pm Pookie

“Candygram for Mongo”

:^:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

There’s an old classic SNL skit where a woman goes to her door after hearing the doorbell and says, “Who is it?” And a voice from the other side of the door says, “Candygram.” When she opens the door to get the Candygram, it’s a guy in a shark suit who says, “Landshark!” and attacks her. Or something. I was young when I saw it.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:45 pm Schnookie

Andreas Nodl sounds like the name of the greatest pastry chef in Vienna.

Not since the Sacher Torte was invented has Vienna seen so great a pastry chef.
on December 12, 2009 at 7:54 pm Myra

You got the Land Shark skit right, Pookie. I was in high school then, so that was a really really old classic SNL skit. Ah, good times.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:03 pm Myra

I swear I had a dress in the 80′s made of the same fabric as Don Cherry’s jacket.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:04 pm Schnookie

You’re just taking a trip down memory lane here, aren’t you Myra? :D
on December 12, 2009 at 8:10 pm Myra

They say that happens a lot when you get old.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:12 pm Schnookie

Well, you wouldn’t know anything about THAT! :D
on December 12, 2009 at 8:13 pm Schnookie

You know what I wouldn’t mind? I wouldn’t mind if the Devils went back to playing like they did in the first.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:18 pm Schnookie

What is with all the effin’ turnovers inside the blue line?? The Devils are KILLING me now. This game used to be awesome — where did it all go wrong?
on December 12, 2009 at 8:25 pm Schnookie

BOOOOOOOOOOO! I hope the Devils learned a valuable lesson there about not sucking anymore. Hmph.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:26 pm Pookie

Funfetti. I was really thinking tonight was the night for 104. :(
on December 12, 2009 at 8:30 pm Kathleen

I was really thinking tonight was the night for 104. :(

Maybe Marty wants to save it for a halfway decent team?

Or the Rangers?
on December 12, 2009 at 8:33 pm Schnookie

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! That’s more like it!
on December 12, 2009 at 8:34 pm Myra

WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!
on December 12, 2009 at 8:34 pm Schnookie

Maybe Marty wants to save it for a halfway decent team?

Or the Rangers?

:^::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Flyers and Rangers: “Burn. And Touche.”

Speaking of the Rangers, how’s the Sabres game going?
on December 12, 2009 at 8:37 pm Kathleen

Speaking of the Rangers, how’s the Sabres game going?

Not fantastic. I think Crunchy might have had a little too much fun on his day off, and its a penalty party for both teams – goodbye, perfect PK :(

But KALETA has 2 goals and the second was a shortie. Huh.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:37 pm Grrrreg

Hello Ookies and everyone!

I see the Devils are doing good. Sweet. The habs are doing ok too (and just as I’m writing this, Atlanta scores… oops)

Please Devils, keep on tormenting the Flyers, it’s never not funny.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:38 pm Myra

Does Rolston always wink at the camera? I can’t decide if it was charming or creepie.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:38 pm Kathleen

Of course, I missed Kaleta’s second while I was taking out the dog. Next time the rangers score I’m trying that again.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:39 pm Kathleen

Creepy.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:40 pm Pookie

Myra, Rolston always winks. It’s creepy. :D
on December 12, 2009 at 8:40 pm Grrrreg

Daaaaaamn, and now Atlanta just tied the game. I should have said nothing about the habs.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:40 pm Schnookie

DEFINITELY creepy.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:43 pm Kathleen

Awww, I love Kaleta now. He was asked how great it felt to get his first 2-goal game and he said he’ll think about that later – now he’s more worried about the sabres doing well in the third.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:45 pm Schnookie

I should have said nothing about the habs.

:^:::::::::::::::::: I’m so sorry!
on December 12, 2009 at 8:47 pm Kathleen

This guy on the Flyer’s intermission show looks like Alex Trebek (with mustache)
on December 12, 2009 at 8:48 pm Grrrreg

I should have said nothing about the habs.

:^:::::::::::::::::: I’m so sorry!

Since that comment, the habs scored a third goal, and the thrashers tied it again. It’s a little crazy…
on December 12, 2009 at 8:51 pm Schnookie

Since that comment, the habs scored a third goal, and the thrashers tied it again. It’s a little crazy…

Yeesh! Your game is like the weather in Chicago. If you don’t like it, wait five minutes… :D

This guy on the Flyer’s intermission show looks like Alex Trebek (with mustache)

Heh. Because we’ve gone so many years with not being able to ever watch the Flyers feed, JJ is like some kind of strange foreign creature to us. His play-by-play speech patterns totally crack me up.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:52 pm Myra

Ok, I was leaning toward creepy but didn’t want to step on any Devils toes.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:54 pm Grrrreg

Ok, I was leaning toward creepy but didn’t want to step on any Devils toes.

I don’t think there are too many Rolston fans here! :P
on December 12, 2009 at 8:55 pm Schnookie

Zach is never going to score again.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:56 pm Myra

I don’t think there are too many Rolston fans here! :P

Well, that is true.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:57 pm Schnookie

Ok, I was leaning toward creepy but didn’t want to step on any Devils toes.

I don’t think there are too many Rolston fans here! :P

:^::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Really, Myra — haven’t you been paying attention? :P

The Devils seem to have told Marty that he’s on his own for the rest of the night.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:57 pm Pookie

Even the cat named after Rolston thinks the winking is creepy.
on December 12, 2009 at 8:59 pm Kathleen

Aww. The Philly announcers love Zach!
on December 12, 2009 at 9:01 pm Schnookie

Everybody loves Zach! It’s nice to finally have a superstar whose greatness is uncontroversial enough (read: offense-oriented) that no one bothers trying to sell him short. :D
on December 12, 2009 at 9:24 pm Schnookie

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
on December 12, 2009 at 9:25 pm Kathleen

Yay Devils! Can we call this a Crunchy Brodeur shutout? I didn’t see that Flyers goal.
on December 12, 2009 at 9:27 pm Myra

Aw! Little Berger got the #1 star. Boy, for a young guy, he sure has lost a lot of teeth.
on December 12, 2009 at 9:33 pm Kathleen

(the sabres don’t really deserve it but) WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
on December 12, 2009 at 9:35 pm Grrrreg

Congrats, devils and sabres!
on December 12, 2009 at 9:37 pm Kathleen

hey, the Habs are still in it!
on December 12, 2009 at 9:43 pm Pookie

OK, this is a bit of a delayed reaction because I was cutting fabric — WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! That game turned out awesome! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
on December 12, 2009 at 9:51 pm Grrrreg

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. Terribly stupid penalty taken by the habs in the last minute of the game and they lose during the ensuing PP in OT… :(

This team is taking so many dumb penalties, it’s infuriating. I think only Philly took more minor penalties this season.

Anyway, that’s it for me, have a good night!
on December 12, 2009 at 9:55 pm EJGRgunner

Maybe Rolston is having an affair with the camera operator.
on December 12, 2009 at 9:55 pm Kathleen

Well… you got one point, on the bright side. Sorry :( The Thrashers are annoying.
on December 12, 2009 at 9:56 pm Schnookie

Aw, g’night Grrrreg. I’m sure the Habs’ll turn it around!

Maybe Rolston is having an affair with the camera operator.

Well I hope he doesn’t think he’s being subtle!
on December 12, 2009 at 10:18 pm Amy

Howdy, peeps! I guess I missed a fun Sabres game while at my company holiday party. I may have to whip through it on the DVR. Also, the chef at the party must be a Semi Ho fan. There were canned pears or pear pie filling on the salad. Fresh pears do not have *that* kind of texture.
on December 12, 2009 at 10:28 pm Pookie

Fresh pears do not have *that* kind of texture.

:^::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Sorry you had to go to a company party!
on December 12, 2009 at 10:32 pm Schnookie

Dude, I HOPE that was pear pie filling on the salad, because that is every which kind of creative! Heh. And I am SO sorry you missed the game for your company holiday party. What a drag!
on December 12, 2009 at 10:40 pm Amy

Sorry you had to go to a company party!

Yeah, at least the drinks were good. Heh.
on December 12, 2009 at 10:40 pm Patty (in Dallas)

The Devils and the Sabres both won? Yay!

Also: Uh-oh.
on December 12, 2009 at 10:42 pm Myra

That doesn’t bode well for the Stars.
on December 12, 2009 at 10:43 pm Kathleen

There were canned pears or pear pie filling on the salad.

Ew.

It seems weird that the east coast games have been over for an hour but there’s a game just starting in the west. North America is too large.
on December 12, 2009 at 10:45 pm Schnookie

The Devils and the Sabres both won? Yay!

Also: Uh-oh.

:^:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

And they had good drinks at your party, Amy? I’m so jealous! My holiday party is all about the lousy table wine, and cash bar for watery domestic beers. :( (I’ve been put in charge of the drinks for a department holiday party, and I’m a bit ashamed to admit that I opted for watery domestic beers and lousy table wines. Heh. I had limited options! :D)
on December 12, 2009 at 10:46 pm Amy

It seems weird that the east coast games have been over for an hour but there’s a game just starting in the west.

This Vancouver game has been mildly entertaining.

And drinks were open bar and the bartender made his drinks using Sandy pours.
on December 12, 2009 at 10:50 pm Pookie

I don’t get booze at my company holiday. :(
on December 12, 2009 at 10:55 pm Schnookie

And drinks were open bar and the bartender made his drinks using Sandy pours.

NICE! I need to get a job at your office, I think… :D (The best my party has to offer is that I was joking with the events planner at work about how I wanted a really classy cocktail hour for my department, and she said, “So no mini-hot dogs, then? How about instead we have ‘tube steaks en croute’?”)
on December 12, 2009 at 10:58 pm Kathleen

Tube steaks?
on December 12, 2009 at 11:00 pm Amy

‘tube steaks en croute’?

Brilliant.
on December 12, 2009 at 11:10 pm Schnookie

I actually ordered a tray of mini hot dogs for the reception, just so I can laugh and laugh at it.
on December 12, 2009 at 11:13 pm Patty (in Dallas)

‘tube steaks en croute’

:^:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Our holiday party has a bar, if I recall, and “heavy hors d’oevres”

Not sure what that is. Maybe ‘tube steaks en croute’!
on December 12, 2009 at 11:15 pm Kathleen

“heavy hors d’oevres”

That seems oxymoronic…
on December 12, 2009 at 11:21 pm Schnookie

“heavy hors d’oevres”

That seems oxymoronic…

:^:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Yeeeeah. Would that just be dinner entrees served on little cocktail toothpicks?
on December 12, 2009 at 11:26 pm Patty (in Dallas)

Or maybe your forks and spoons have that plastic fringe on the handles.
on December 12, 2009 at 11:29 pm Schnookie

Or maybe your forks and spoons have that plastic fringe on the handles.

:^:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: That just made me laugh REALLY hard. Now I’m imagining everyone digging into, like, Beef Wellington with little tiny wooden cutlery with cellophane fringe on the ends. I love it.
on December 12, 2009 at 11:44 pm Patty (in Dallas)

Everybody has a giant plate and just chooses their own Beef Wellington, then moves down the table to get a whole pork chop. And then they try to eat it standing around. :D
on December 12, 2009 at 11:46 pm Patty (in Dallas)

Woooooooooo!! Modano!
on December 12, 2009 at 11:48 pm Patty (in Dallas)

The (Not)s got six goals tonight! Finally getting a chance to put Patty in is what did it, I think.
on December 12, 2009 at 11:49 pm Myra's Hub

Patty are you getting the game. We are watching the Mavs postgame waiting and waiting for the Stars to come on.
on December 12, 2009 at 11:50 pm Schnookie

Everybody has a giant plate and just chooses their own Beef Wellington, then moves down the table to get a whole pork chop. And then they try to eat it standing around.

:^::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: And it’s all accompanied by a tiny little paper napkin.

Congrats to the Stars for the Modano goal, and to the (Not)s for putting Patty in! :D
on December 13, 2009 at 12:04 am Patty (in Dallas)

And it’s all accompanied by a tiny little paper napkin.

:^:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

I need to change my “decline” to “accept” on that invite.
on December 13, 2009 at 10:58 am mcguffers

Good morning everyone! Sounds like it was an interesting night for hockey. I missed the festivities but from what I’ve seen on NHL.com, I don’t ever want Kaleta to score again. I hate douche-y goal celebrations. If I wanted to watch that @#$% I’d watch football. Or the Capitals.
on December 13, 2009 at 1:24 pm Schnookie

If I wanted to watch that @#$% I’d watch football. Or the Capitals.

:^:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: SO. TRUE. I hope guys who do that shit get heavily fined in kangaroo court.

And good, um, “morning”, everyone! We just got back from a thoroughly rain-drenched Christmas tree procuring expedition. If it was, like, five degrees colder, it would be snowing. Hard. :(
on December 13, 2009 at 3:01 pm mcguffers

It’s not a Christmas tree unless there was extreme discomfort involved finding it!

And speaking of a great find, the amputee donkey is back!!! It’s a Christmas miracle! I guess he was found under the couch sometime in July, then put in a desk until Christmas, only to be forgotten! I’ve also realized that it was only the camel who is an amputee. Donkey’s laying down, so technically his legs aren’t visible, but he’s just missing his ears.
on December 13, 2009 at 4:06 pm Schnookie

It’s not a Christmas tree unless there was extreme discomfort involved finding it!

:^:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Right! The guys at the christmas tree lot were laughing as we picked the first tree we looked at — they said that this kind of weather really helps people make decisions. Heh.

And I’m SO HAPPY that amputee donkey is back in the fold! Also, to find out that he has an amputee support group in the creche with him. Because amputated ears are still amputated, no?
on December 13, 2009 at 4:47 pm mcguffers

Also, to find out that he has an amputee support group in the creche with him. Because amputated ears are still amputated, no?

Good point! They’ll need each other to get through the holidays without the faceless sheep who is still MIA.
on December 13, 2009 at 5:08 pm Schnookie

I think a sheep that had a face amputation needs more support from a support group than the donkey and camel do.
on December 13, 2009 at 5:18 pm mcguffers

I always thought maybe the sheep liked not having a face because it helped him stand out from the other sheep. I probably wouldn’t have noticed if one of the other sheep had been lost, but missing the faceless sheep? I noticed that immediately!
on December 13, 2009 at 5:21 pm Schnookie

I probably wouldn’t have noticed if one of the other sheep had been lost, but missing the faceless sheep? I noticed that immediately!

:^::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: That’s a good point. All of our creche’s sheep are in different poses, so they’re all distinct. There’s the standing sheep, the lying-down sheep, and the sheep that is draped over the shepherd’s shoulders. That one shouldn’t really count as a sheep, since he’s more a non-detachable accessory for the shepherd, but still. He IS a sheep.
on December 13, 2009 at 6:11 pm Kathleen

I don’t ever want Kaleta to score again. I hate douche-y goal celebrations.

Yeah, his celebrations are super-annoying, but I’m willing to give him a pass for last night -

1) Eh, he doesn’t score a lot.
2) He got the game-tying goal and then he got the game winner shorthanded. That’s really something else.
3) He had a great game on all counts
4) He downplayed himself in the intermission interview and said he wanted to concentrate on the team winning the game.
5) Let’s consider it something else to work on. He really seems to be growing up this year. (You know, when he wasn’t getting himself suspended.)
on December 13, 2009 at 8:08 pm mcguffers

That one shouldn’t really count as a sheep, since he’s more a non-detachable accessory for the shepherd, but still. He IS a sheep.

:^::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Roy-z has an outfit like that.

He really seems to be growing up this year. (You know, when he wasn’t getting himself suspended.)

:^::::::::::::::::::::: I didn’t get to see the game, only the highlights, so I was going to give him a pass for the emotions of game-tying and winning goals. But it was SO douche-y. I love when Goose was all embarrassed because he did a fist pump two years ago, but that was a clutch goal and it was just pure adrenaline. Patty’s shenanigans were too thought out. And did I mention they looked really douche-y? :)
on December 13, 2009 at 8:42 pm Kathleen

Patty’s shenanigans were too thought out

Heh. He pretty much admitted as much.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/story/892049.html

I’m still loving his game last night.

The Chicago announcers will call diving on EVERY penalty the Hawks take. Ugggh.
on December 13, 2009 at 8:48 pm Schnookie

Roy-z has an outfit like that.

:^::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Wait, Kathleen, you’re getting the Chicago feed? We’re watching on the Tampa one, and it blows…
on December 13, 2009 at 8:57 pm Kathleen

I don’t have cable, so my hockey watching is courtesy of the magic of the internets. Which feed I get is a crapshoot.

If I don’t get the Buf feed for the Sabres, though, I’ll mute & keep RJ on the radio, even though it’s a couple seconds off.
on December 13, 2009 at 9:32 pm Schnookie

Ooooh! The internets! Fancy! I never thought of that. :D
on December 13, 2009 at 9:41 pm Kathleen

Hmmph!

I can’t believe the Hawks couldn’t pull a PPG out of THREE 5 on 3s. I mean, fine, they shut out TB, but DUDES!
on December 13, 2009 at 9:46 pm Schnookie

At the very least, they could have gotten some more points for the Too Oranges from Soupy and Big Buf.